In Saïd Sayrafiezadeh’s fictional short story “Minimum Payment Due”, the main character is trapped in credit card debt and is desperately looking for a way out.

The fact that the experience is widespread—more than a third, or 38%, of U.S. adults have credit card debt, according to Bankrate—doesn’t make it any less frightening for the narrator.

Debt collectors won’t stop calling him. Now he can’t even admit how much he owes his therapist.

“He waited while I calculated the number in my head, the different clients, the late fees, the penalties, the surcharges,” writes Sayrafiezadeh. “Then I did what everyone does when filled with denial and shame: I rounded down the number and reduced it. The low value was still a lot.”

The narrator resorts to self-help books, therapy, and even a cult for advice, but he’s in too deep. No matter how much he puts into the debt each month, it won’t go down.

Sayrafiezadeh is a novelist, memoirist, and playwright living in New York City. CNBC interviewed Sayrafiezadeh this month about his story, which was published in New Yorker in November and his decision to use fiction to investigate credit card debt.

Annie Nova: They never tell us exactly how much credit card debt the narrator has. I’m curious, what was the point of this omission?

Said Sayrafiezadeh: It’s like “Jaws”: you don’t want to show the monster too much. I thought it would be better for the reader to think about it and create a character in their head rather than giving them a hard number.

AN: You say debt is going from “four digits to five digits.” So we know that much. But that could be $10,000, and that could be $99,000.

SS: That’s exactly right.

AN: In the story you mention that the compound interest on his credit card debt is increasing daily. We feel like the character will never get out of this situation. It’s really scary and clearly described. I was wondering if you’ve struggled with credit card debt.

SS: I’m actually the opposite of this guy. I don’t even wait for my statement to settle it. Knowing that I don’t owe anyone anything is a joy for me.

AN: Did you do any research on credit card debt for this story?

SS: No, I don’t have that. I simply put myself in the shoes of someone who was in that situation. I guess I just have to feel it. Maybe we all feel it in some way. Even if you don’t have debt, it’s always there, hovering. What if I couldn’t pay my bills? Maybe something about 2008 when we had the great recession and everyone lost their homes. I don’t know. It just didn’t seem hard to imagine what it would be like to be that character.

AN: In the opening scenes of the story, the narrator receives a phone call. It turns out it’s an old friend, but he’s initially convinced it’s another call from a debt collection agency. Is the credit card debt so overwhelming for the narrator that he can’t see anything else?

SS: Yes, absolutely. Everything he sees, he sees through debt-colored glasses. Everything is his fault.

AN: The only person in the story that the narrator confides in about his debts is his therapist. But even to him he lies and claims he owes less than he actually does. Why can’t he tell the truth?

SS: There is a certain shame that he carries with him. Maybe it is also denied. Telling the therapist the actual amount would make it real, and he can’t really stand that.

AN: I found it a really interesting detail that the narrator is a software engineer at a tech startup. He’s in debt, even though he probably has a good, well-paying job. Why add these details about him?

SS: I wanted it to be about the algorithms that affect him and us in our society. He says something about Tony Robbins’ book popping up on his Instagram feed. There are these algorithms that target us with advertising that we are vulnerable to. But I also wanted to make him someone who develops such algorithms, so that he can be part of this cycle. I wanted the irony of him writing code but also being receptive to the code he writes.

AN: How does this character end up with so much credit card debt? Is it a spending problem?

SS: That’s a great question: Why is he in debt? The only thing he says is that he is vulnerable. So that’s all he knows. And that’s not really an answer. But it does mean he is vulnerable; He is vulnerable to being exploited. The story doesn’t really delve into the reasons why he acts this way. I wanted it to be more of a mystery. He doesn’t know why he is who he is, why all this debt came about.

AN: Do you think your story will make people feel a little less alone with their own debt?

SS: That would be great. I try to write about certain things that are troubling and plague a lonely character. But yeah, the story might make someone feel like, Oh yeah, it’s not just me. Maybe the story ends in a way that leaves readers feeling less alone.